Possible 3.1 DW spec?

[JimDoug]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=00000000000000000000000000003202530005200300230000000000230020305103115203050220100000&glyph=081618070206&version=9684

This is the spec i feel will be able to pull in front of many. the gearing is going to be the downfall. With this spec you really need haste. enough to get an extra spell in the rotation. i havn't done the math to figure out how much you would need to pull 1 sec from the entire rotation but with this and the 3 min of testing i did ( dont scoff it was a dummy and the numbers are insignificant ) the spec felt very solid and from the points in places it should scale decently. certainly no 20/51 live or 32/39 live but i think that was blizzards point. too many synergy talents too close.

Over all i dont feel that DW is dead. in the beginning DW was said to be retarded also untill those of us that were hard headed pulled out in the lead and converted the masses to the point that blizzard had to take control of the class and change it up so there was balance.

This spec was able to take dual angry dreads and pull the swing times down to 1.56. with 230 haste. swinging with 2 slow weps imo would be the way to go but i have no hard evidence to say its any better than a slow offhand other than the pure fact that a slow wep hits harder.

I do have a question however... with haste if you have 30% taken off of a 2.8 sec wep vs a 1.6 or so would the haste benefit the slower wep more because in theory ( i dont know how the full mechanic of the game works ) just from looking at it... .84 sec would be taken off the 2.8 vs .48 on the 1.6.

but at the same time i think i'm over thinking it because the game is based on a weapon DPS rating...

Hi... I'm tired and its 1 am.

[Tclan]

I do have a question however... with haste if you have 30% taken off of a 2.8 sec wep vs a 1.6 or so would the haste benefit the slower wep more because in theory ( i dont know how the full mechanic of the game works ) just from looking at it... .84 sec would be taken off the 2.8 vs .48 on the 1.6.

but at the same time i think i'm over thinking it because the game is based on a weapon DPS rating...

Hi... I'm tired and its 1 am.

The percentage of increase you'll see in your white damage through haste is the same no matter what your weapon speed is.

The (mathematical) proof:
You can calculate your weapon's white DPS with this equation: ((min damage + max damage)/2) / (weapon speed/(1+((haste rating/100)/32.79)))) which can be simplified into (3279 + haste rating)(min damage + max damage)/(6558*weapon speed)

Now, you can just try it with different numbers. That's the simplest way to check. We can take the Angry Dread and the Hailstorm, for example. Two weapons with nearly the same DPS, but different weapon speeds.

Angry Dread's dps with 300 haste rating:
(3279 + 300)(274 + 509)/(6558*2.50) = 170.928 dps

Hailstorm's dps with 300 haste rating:
(3270 + 300)(164 + 306)/(6558*1.50) = 170.57 dps

So, as you can see, the increase in the weapon's white DPS is the same even if the weapon speeds are different. The 0.358 difference in DPS comes from the fact that Hailstorm's and Angry Dread's DPS values are not *exactly* the same. But they're close enough.

If you wanted to, you could also plot (3279 + haste rating)(164 + 306)/(6558 * 1.5) and (3279 + haste rating)(274 + 509)/(6558 * 2.50). Doing so would reveal that they're nearly identical.

Ugh, I'm bored.

EDIT: Didn't feel like double posting so I edited this post.

So, since I had some spare time, I decided to give the variant I mentioned (0/23/48 [wowwiki.com]) a try on the PTR. I still lacked the glyphs, because I wasn't online when the glyph vendor was on the PTR yesterday evening, and respeccing made me lose all of my glyphs (what's up with that?).

Anyhow, I think that this spec actually outdoes the first spec I posted, the one with rime. The harder hitting ITs are just worth more damage than the +15% crit you get from rime. Although I had to play around with the rotation a bit.. Turns out trying to keep GF up 24/7 and using it in the second part of the rotation is a DPS loss. But not using it was a DPS loss as well, so my compromise was..

PS, IT, BS/BB, [UB], IT, GF, BS/BB, [DC], PS, IT, IT, [DC], IT, IT, [DC dump]

This guarantees 24/7 desecration uptime and around ~65% ghoul frenzy uptime. I'm sure that with enough haste or during bloodlusts and haste buffs of such nature, a death knight running this spec could fit the second ghoul frenzy in without losing DPS-- in fact, he would be gaining DPS if he can shave off enough time from the global cooldowns.

Anyway, test results.. I managed to break 3k dps multiple times with this spec and rotation and my gear level.

[JimDoug]

hmmm would it be possible to gauge how much white damage scales with haste and str?

on ptr i'm using a non haste speed swing kinda spec... basically using imp unholy, icy talons and imp icy talons for the extra 5% haste. from gear i have 230 ish haste. I am fully able to add 1 extra spell in per rotation. since the ghoul benefits from our haste and such how much do they scale with that or is that 1:1.

basically what i'm trying to do is weigh my spec that ive created vs others ive seen to find out which one will scale farther with raid buffs.

[Forcette]

Just curious what you guys think about this spec for the upcoming patch using two slow weapons with FC(mh) and CG(oh) (since its changed to a PPM). With glyph of icy touch, ghoul, and Obliterate

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=00000000000000000000000000003200535035200301230005101350230200305003100000000000000000&glyph=271817060405&version=9722

with a rotation looking something like

PS+IT+Oblit+BS+BS+FS

Oblit+Oblit+Oblit+FS+FS ( mix in the second FS based on KM procs)

The rotation is self sustaining based on RP consumtion and allows for the full duration of diseases with out overlap.

With Necrosis and BCB having their changes reverted two slow weapons + Black Ice causing 10% more shadow dmg would make necrosis hit a little harder.

anyways just an idea I thought might work

[THECames]

My comment is that much of the damage in that rotation is weapon damage based (all those strikes of various types + obliterate).  I would think that a rotation with that many melee strikes is better done as a 2h spec.

[Forcette]

Well, its looking like any DW spec is going to have to rely on 1 or more strikes especially if howlingblast has the extended cooldown and is soo deep in the frost tree you lose out on impurity which made it a lot more potent. I just wish they would switch Howling Blast and Frost Strike and actually make some synergy between the two trees and make DW viable again at least in my eyes.

[THECames]

I was thinking that an equivalent/variant of the old 0/20/51 IT spam spec would be the most likely candidate.  Yes, I concur that Strikes are included in this but the idea is to to make as much damage as possible based upon some other stat than the MH weapon damage.  Right now that gives - UB, BB, HB, IT, D&D and Gargoyle as your choices for this.

[Forcette]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=20000000000000000000000000003200535005200311230005101351230230005000300000000000000000&glyph=171311040605&version=9733

Here is a new spec based on the recent patch note change. Glyphs included

using DnD in the rotation as well because with free HBs it we will have lots a free runes to use

[codeviper]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=20000000000000000000000000003200535005200311230005101351230230005000300000000000000000&glyph=171311040605&version=9733

Here is a new spec based on the recent patch note change. Glyphs included

using DnD in the rotation as well because with free HBs it we will have lots a free runes to use

I still can't see DnD being a viable damage ability.

[Nev]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=20000000000000000000000000003200535005200311230005101351230230005000300000000000000000&glyph=171311040605&version=9733

Here is a new spec based on the recent patch note change. Glyphs included

using DnD in the rotation as well because with free HBs it we will have lots a free runes to use

to take advantage of the free HBs rime offers, you need to take the HB talent first

[Forcette]

Nev while i usually hold your statements to be fact rather than fiction, this time on my post you need to check your facts, That build was for 3.1 and HB is the 51 point talent now, not the Hungering Cold that I think you are thinking of.

[Hymn]

Turning this into the DW official build thread!

[Nev]

Nev while i usually hold your statements to be fact rather than fiction, this time on my post you need to check your facts, That build was for 3.1 and HB is the 51 point talent now, not the Hungering Cold that I think you are thinking of.

I was looking at the wrong tab in firefox when I posted my reply, disregard it.

[darthbuddha]

Green things and Salivations, 

I'm new here, as a member but have been an avid fan of all the great info and theories here for months now. I've been checking daily since 3.1 hit the live servers for any new bits of DW carnage, yet to my surprise no one has posted any updates on any of the builds that were listed throughout this thread. So I figured perhaps I'd post my own experimenting so far and hopefully spark some response and conversation.

the build I'm using at the moment is a 0/15/56 http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=00000000000000000000000000003202530000000000000000000000230230305003215003150013133151&glyph=192212040605&version=9767

With a working rotation that goes: DnD -> PS -> IT -> PEST/BB -> UB/DC -> BB ->SS -> SS -> BB -> UB/DC (using BB over Pest and DC over UB for single targets, also I work in some  ghoul frenzies when I have an open unholy rune but the rest are on cooldown)

It's not always perfect and could probably use some fine tuning but so far its been good all around. My DK is using 4 pieces of T7 along with some gear from Naxx and heroics, with a pair of Hatestrikes (FC/CG). While not phenomenal shes pulling 2.5-2.7k dps in 5 mans, hoping to see those numbers go up tonight in 25 Naxx.

If you are wondering why I start with DnD well thus far its doing a nice amount of damage(800-1k a tick), as well as, its a quick RP builder. Besides at this point any source of damage is a welcome part of my arsenal. Personally I have found the Darkmoon Card: Death to be a diamond in the rough as it were so any and all aoe sources of damage give it more chances to proc    (the blessed thing will proc off anything diseases dnd, ub...anything).

Hopefully I haven't rambled to much, and what I've said made sense, or at least thought provoking I look forward to any responses.

[Flood]

Since 3.1 I´m doing 0/17/54, a variation of Orlgins Unholy DW-Specc. First tried the original specc, but Obliterate didn´t work out for me since I only have 2,5ish% ArP and 2 fast weapons.
In my variation CotG, Dirge & Glyph of Icy Touch are used in Imp. Unholy Presence to get out as many DCs as possible.
Well, the first tests on Ebon Holds dummy were kinda devastating. Pre-Patch in 0/20/51 I was pulling ~3200dps on a 0%-dummy and now I fell 400-500dps short just doing something like a raw priority-system and by no means every single CD was used and fitting perfectly like in the old 0/20/51-time.
I held on to the specc for my first 25-Raid to Ulduar on sunday and prepared to face the bottom of Recount/Webstats.
To my surprise the specc turned out to work very well with raidbuffs. We were 4 DKs that evening: 2 Unholy (0/10/61 and x/10/5x - dont´t remeber exactly, but he had Black Ice), 1 Frost (who usualy tanks but dps´d on 002) & me and after our Razorscale firstkill and 5-6 tries on 002 I was leading the Board.

Of course there´s no relation to pre-patch and in our Raid DW and 2H are very close now, but I think this build will be very viable with the new Ulduar Sigil and 2pc T8 which would increase DC by 380dmg and 5% crit.


*did I say that english´s not my native language?