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Author Topic: Want DX11  (Read 414 times)
Falaenx
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« on: March 15, 2011, 10:31:27 AM »

So, I've been noticing each new game I get runs worse and worse on my current cards because they were the very last ones to support DX10 only.  2x GTx 295's in my computer, great cards for the beginning of last year, not so much this year.  Can't believe Nvidia has jumped 3 100's in the last year 0.o

I have been hunting around for possible new cards to get and looking at the GTX 460 and GTX 560/570/580.  I would like to stick with Nvidia but isn't a requirement, just used to tweaking them over so many years.

If I do find a new card I will be selling mine at a much better price than even eBay and you should PM me about that.  You can buy both or none just be sure you have an sli bridge already because that part is exclusive to your motherboard.
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Wye
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 10:49:59 AM »

I got a gtx 460 last week. it's pretty dope. mine's an asus brand and it runs very cool and quiet. the performance is bottlenecked by rest of the PC, but i can still play with everything on ultra and fraps.
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 10:58:54 AM »

I got a gtx 460 last week. it's pretty dope. mine's an asus brand and it runs very cool and quiet. the performance is bottlenecked by rest of the PC, but i can still play with everything on ultra and fraps.

What resolution?  Fal, plays at something ungodly high.
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Wye
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 11:11:57 AM »

I use 1680x1050 since it's a mid level card (130~160$ Retail), and I use a single one. in SLI, i'm sure it can play WoW at even 2560x1600 if that's what he plays.

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Falaenx
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 11:24:33 AM »

I use 1680x1050 since it's a mid level card (130~160$ Retail), and I use a single one. in SLI, i'm sure it can play WoW at even 2560x1600 if that's what he plays.



Yeah I play there, wow hates sli though for some reason.  I always get graphical hitches when in sli
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 11:31:41 AM »

You two are beasts.
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Oddjob
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 12:07:11 PM »

I have a PNY gtx 460, i run WOW at 1980x1200(I think that's the right numbers) and could record fraps at fullscreen w/o dipping below 30 fps
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 12:08:03 PM »

Can't believe Nvidia has jumped 3 100's in the last year 0.o

Don't sweat this so much because the enumeration is mostly marketing and lots of lipstick.  It helps to identify the naming scheme used for the nomenclature of nVidia's video card products:

Starting with the 200 series, most of those chips were simply reskinned 9000 series GPUs.  So most 9000 series chips were the same ones used in the 200 series.

We can start with an example "GeForce GTX 460"

nVidia has GeForce and Quadro GPUs it produces.  GeForce are consumer grade and marketed for end-users and OEMs.  Quadro are corporate or business grade GPUs marketed for servers and mission critical workstations and are marketed as such.

The difference between all of nVidias "GXX" labels can be a bit head-scratching sometimes.  As with most chip manufactures, the products are mass produced leading to some chips not performing at the intended performance of the manufacturing chip specifications.  Therefore, the chips are tiered into different "GXX" labels indicating that potentially portions of the chip's features have been locked or not guaranteed compared to the "top model".  In general....

GTX > GTS > GT > GS

In our example, our GTX 460 is the "top" model of the 460 dye process and technology of the GPU.

Realize some GPUs were only produced with one or more of the above "G" labels.  Some of these were relabeled at the next numerical model label:

"XYY" is the current numeric formula for the model number of the GPU.  The "X" refers to the generation of chip signified by potentially a new dye process, new chip features, new technologies, etc.  The "YY" refers to number assigned to the tiered maximum performance of the chip.  So using our example the GTX 460:

generation ---> 4    60 <------ performance tier

The perforance tiers are labeled from highest to lowest as such:

   95
90
   85
80
   75

down to

   15
10

Each increment of 10 generally signifies a jump in the amount of technology performance of the chip.  This means you will see larger memory bus sizes, memory size, and even different memory standards (DDR3 vs. DDR5 for example).  Each increment of 5 generally denotes a difference in speed of the compenents -- GPU core, shaders and memory will have their default and tested speeds increased.  To use a crude analogy, each 10 increment increases the number of cylinders in a combustion engine.  Each increment of 5 increases the size of the intake valve.



In summary, I realize that your 295s probably seem to pale in contrast to the new 500 series models, but you pretty much have the BMW of the 200 series chips -- and in SLI!  Realize that your two 295 GTXs SLI almost beat on average the performance of single GTX 480 cards and compete pretty well with GTX 460s in SLI.  Don't believe me?



Admittedly we are just talking performance here.  Of course upgrading will get you DX11 peformance and all the new and upgraded technologies as well as many other goodies the new generations of chips offer.  The graphics will look better and feel richer on new 500 series vs. your 295s.  But speaking in raw performance numbers, you still have a beast setup with 295s in SLI which is on par if not beating the performance of most of the 300 and 400 series GeForce chips.
 
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Falaenx
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 12:44:05 PM »

What if I told you I was going to say sli the 460's or 580's
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 01:04:24 PM »

That your expendable income is too high Tongue
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Falaenx
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 03:09:42 PM »

That your expendable income is too high Tongue

pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt!
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 05:08:33 AM »

I am currently building a computer and bought 2 560s to SLI.  Just got my I5 2500k sandy bridge cpu yesterday and now i'm just waiting for the ASRock P67 Extreme6 to not be sold out to finish my build...can't freaking wait  Grin
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Falaenx
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 08:18:56 AM »

I am curious about this Ultimas, to use the graphical power of that CPU does the motherboard itself need some sort of video out?  Or can it supplement the graphics cards.
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 11:43:32 AM »

I am curious about this Ultimas, to use the graphical power of that CPU does the motherboard itself need some sort of video out?  Or can it supplement the graphics cards.

As I stated in this thread http://plaguechill.com/plaguezone/index.php/topic,3614.0.html the P67 motherboards don't support the integrated GPU in the Sandy Bridge chips.  However, like Ultimas is doing, planning to use 3rd party graphics cards negates the need for the Intel integrated GPU.  If you want to use all the bells and whistles the Sandy Bridge chip has to offer, you need to wait for the Z68 chipsets Intel should be releasing soon (May according to this release):

 "Awaited by many users considering to build an Intel Sandy Bridge system, the Z68 Express chipset is slated to come in the first half of May and the very first preview of such a motherboard seems to confirm this is the chipset to get in order to fully unlock the potential of Intel's second generation Core processors."

Fal, you spoke to the graphical power of the Sandy Bridge and whether it can supplement the video cards.  At this time, the GPU is "stand alone" meaning it doesn't really have a clean way to "talk" or work with other installed video cards on its own.  It will take additional hardware/software to potentially merge the best of both worlds.  Thankfully, a company called LucidLogix is working on what it calls "Virtu" which essentially is a GPU virualization type "middleware" allowing the integrated graphics to work in conjunction with discrete 3rd party video cards.  This technology also supposedly will extend to different GPUs from other vendors.  Intel showed this technology off at this year's CES and I'm sure more companies will jump into the ring to create software utilizing more of Sandy Bridge's GPU potential.

Starting last week, LucidLogix is offering its free Virtu software to those using H67 chipset motherboards with the Sandy Bridge i5 and i7s.  You can register for the software on LucidLogix home page.  While Virtu is the virtualization software, they are also developing a hardware chip they hope to sell to board manufactures called their "HydraLogix Engine" using a new UNITY architecture designed to allow motherboards to utilize any GPU architecture from any manufacture on the same board and optimize performance from all the different architectures.

With this type of software/hardware becoming available, I'll be waiting for at least the Z68 chipsets and beyond to hopefully harness the full power of Intel's integrated GPU even with 3rd party video cards.


« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 12:15:22 PM by Omegaman » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 12:10:43 PM »

Since this is such a hot topic in the computer hardware world, I thought I'd expand a little on Virtu's performance.  Tom's Hardware did an amazing writeup and benchmark on Virtu's performance using the H67 chipset and 2 different discrete graphics cards (ATI and nVidia).  Here's some amazing numbers regarding World of Warcraft: Cataclysm:



At first glance you might think "The framerate dropped with Virtu" until you realize that these results are pushing the game through Sandy Bridge's integrated GPU and not the discrete video card.  Thus, the results without Virtu with the video cards installed are only playing the game using DirectX 9.  Using Virtu's software to utilize and optimize performance from both GPUs allows the game to be pushed through Intel's integrated GPU with DirectX 11 and all the bells and whistles from the discrete graphics card.  Such huge gains in terms of quality the game is displayed at the cost of a few frames per second is impressive!

To quote in the summary of Tom's Hardware review of Virtu:

"The holy grail of Intel’s newest platform is a Core i5/i7 K-series chip, Z68 Express, and Lucidlogix’s Virtu software."

I wholeheartedly agree. Smiley
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 12:13:37 PM by Omegaman » Logged

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