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Tiki
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« on: December 29, 2008, 09:29:26 PM » |
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Note: Please, feel free to comment on this post and nitpick the builds I have, but please try to keep the "why did you pick X instead of Y" posts to a minimum. I try to explain every build as much as I can. I've tanked with each tree, and solo'd with them as well... so I'm not entirely theorycrafting. Wuh-oh! Tiki's gone crazy and decided to finally make a guide-ish post. Basically, I'm starting to see a lot more people come in here saying WHOA-MG HOW DO I SPEC as people reach the endcap. I hereby decree that this thread will be dedicated to the few, the proud, the cookie-cutter specs. Take a look at the posts I make here and get a good idea of how to spec and why, THEN move on to discuss your proposed spec, or just take mine and lawl at your enemies! -- Disclaimer! --Before you make any talent build, first pick up Blade Barrier, Toughness, and Anticipation. Do not skip them. Do not say "But Tiki, bla bla bla lame lame lame". I don't care. These are integral to any and every tanking build. My comments on each tree assume you have all 3 of these talents already. I am not the end-all be-all master of tanking builds, but I am really, ridiculously good looking, so read my advice and form your own opinions. Think Blood is the best spec? Awesome, have at it. Have fun with your spec, and most importantly, make it your own! That being said... on with the show! Quicklinks! The posts are organized by which tree each spec has the most points in. BloodFrostUnholyFAQ and LinksJunk last updated December 29, 2008 @ ~11:30 PM. - Migrated everything to Plaguechill - Updated the gear list link
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« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 09:37:19 PM by Tiki »
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 -- My death dps brings all the boys to the yard. Damn right, it's better than yours.
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Tiki
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 09:30:03 PM » |
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BLOODAh Blood, the "I can tank and dps!" tree. Blood is hailed as the red-headed step child of the tanking world by most DKs, but as Blizzard has said, every tree can tank. What Blood lacks in mitigation and/or avoidance talents, it gains in self-heals and OH SHIZNIZZLE buttons. However, many of the best Blood talents are in the first few tiers, so it is most commonly used as an off-tree in specs. Here's a few builds for Blood tanks. Important Tanking Talents:- Rune Tap / Imp. Rune Tap - A 20% self-heal every 30 seconds is nothing to scoff at, and combined with other talents further in the tree, this can be a lifesaver.
- Spell Deflection - In my opinion, this is the best anti-spell talent DKs have. DKs have a very high parry chance (gear plus Blade Barrier), so this pseudo-spell block will proc more often than you think. Note, however, it does only work on DIRECT DAMAGE spells, so auras and dots will not trigger it.
- Veteran of the Third War - A simple, yet powerful, stat increase. Love it.
- Mark of Blood - On a very fast-hitting boss, this is massively effective at taking care of incoming damage. Remember, as long as the boss doesn't KILL YOU with its hits, healing portions of the damage done is as good as mitigation (to a point).
- Bloodworms - They heal for a lot. The end.
- Vampiric Blood - The 'clicker' talent for Blood (compared to Unbreakable Armor and Bone Shield). Pop this and Bloodworms, Rune Tap, and Mark of Blood really shine. Also helps the healers a bunch.
- Will of the Necropolis - Yes it's good for the AMS CD reduction, but the armor boost honestly isn't that good. If you're that low on health, a small boost in armor probably isn't going to make that much of a difference. However, it helps, mostly on fast-hitting bosses.
- Heart Strike - Not necesarily a tanking talent, but useful nonetheless. This will replace Blood Strike in your rotations. Does a crapload of damage... but I'm unsure if the blocking of haste effects will work on bosses (or most mobs for that matter).
50/14/7Blood builds are a bit more tricky than Frost and Unholy because there are so many awesome-looking talents. However, you must remember that your priorities are a tank are damage avoidance/mitigation THEN threat. If you're not a fan of Rune Tap, move those 4 points to Sudden Doom for some extra TPS. Hysteria is a good tool to give a dps on boss fights. The very bottom of the Blood tree is essentially useless to Tanks. You already have expertise from VotTW, and Dancing Rune Weapon doesn't give towards your own threat. Annihilation and Lichborne help out a lot from the Frost tree. To be honest, that's the only real Blood tanking build I'd even consider using seriously. Any other builds are going to be much more focused towards dps. I'm open to suggestions on that front.
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 -- My death dps brings all the boys to the yard. Damn right, it's better than yours.
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Tiki
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 09:30:48 PM » |
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FROSTFrost is considered by most non-DKs to be the "tank tree", which is totally silly and those people should be poked furiously. Frost does have some incredibly sexy tanking talents, but not MASSIVELY more than any other tree, and most comparisons are based off of personal preference anyway. That being said, Frost has high mitigation and avoidance talents, as well as a very good OH SHIZNIZZLE button (hush you haters, HC is good for 5-mans and a bit of 10). Lichborne is also a key talent to most of the builds I make, as a fear-breaker and damage avoider. Important Tanking Talents:- Improved Icy Touch - Moar speed reduction, kthx.
- Lichborne - Sexiness! In addition to breaking/immunizing you to fear/charm/sleep, this bumps up your to-be-missed chance, massively helpful on hard hitting mobs. Though it's on a 3min cooldown, you can pop it every boss fight to chain together your cooldowns.
- Annihilation - Any heavy frost spec will use Obliterate at some point, so this is a must.
- Frigid Dreadplate - Simple, yet effective.
- Howling Blast - High damage when Frost Fever is up. This is, as a frost tank, how I keep my AoE threat up while DnD is on cooldown.
- Frost Aura - 1 resist per level is much more than you think, especially since it stacks with Acclimation. However, it does not stack with Mark of the Wild or Pally resist auras.
- Unbreakable Armor - As a tank, you'd be glyphing this to remove the Strength but add another 5% Parry, creating a 20-sec long reliable talent.
- Acclimation - Again, resistance is a fantastic stat to have, as it affects dots, auras, AoE spells, etc etc etc. Most bosses use the same type of spell over and over, so this becomes useful.
- Frost Strike - This replaces Death Coil as your runic power dump. Very powerful, great for TPS because it cannot be dodged, blocked, or parried.
- Guile of Gorefiend - As of yet I've had 0 issues with threat on mobs, but the damage boost is nice and the 6 sec to IBF is fantastic. Keep in mind that IBF is the only mitigation ability that does not screw up a rune rotation.
- Hungering Cold - Subject of MUCH debate. At the end of the day, it's a great OH SHIZNIZZLE ability and costs the same as Unholy Blight, and if you're going deep into Frost it's worth picking up, in my opinion. It's just one point.
11/53/7This spec goes Deep Frost and picks up essentially everything you'd want. A point could be taken out of Bladed Armor and put into Rune Tap if wanted, and if Death Runes aren't your style in Frost then I'd suggest removing points from Blood of the North and putting them in Endless Winter (free interrupts for when rogues are lazy) or Runic Power Mastery. 23/41/7This spec weighs Spell Deflection and Veteran of the Third War very heavily. Spell Deflection combined with Frost Aura provide the best spell defenses you can get as a Death Knight, and you still maintain Frost Strike as a reliable TPS boost. Again, move points out of Blood of the North if you don't care about the runes. Dark Conviction could also be moved to Butchery if you have RP issues. Mark of Blood is right there for the picking, but you'd have to sacrifice 1 point in epidemic. 7/44/20I am really not a fan of this build, but I figured I'd include a variant of it for completion's sake. Basically you go into Unholy for the increased AoE tankability with Morbidity and Outbreak, and then grab the stat increases and On a Pale Horse while you're there. One of the main drawbacks is the lack of expertise through talents, as well as the lack of severe spell reducers.
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 -- My death dps brings all the boys to the yard. Damn right, it's better than yours.
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Tiki
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 09:31:36 PM » |
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UNHOLYMy personal favorite tree (of this week at least). Unholy is the God of AoE tanking. Though the other trees can and do AoE tank well, Unholy takes the cake with stronger diseases, pestilence, blood boil, plus Unholy Blight is like a mobile Consecrate. Unholy also has the advantage of a permanent ghoul, which adds DPS to your group, can be sacrificed with Death Pact in a pinch. Important Tanking Talents:- Morbidity - Reduces the cooldown of DnD, so if you plan it right, you could keep it up 66% of every fight. Remember that DnD is a HIGH THREAT AoE.
- Epidemic - On single targets, this allows more SS/Oblit/HS spam. On groups, this makes it easier to switch between targets without having to reapply diseases every time. Most tanking builds take at least 1 point in this.
- On a Pale Horse - Though not the best talent, the reduction is still useful. Stunned/Feared means you cannot parry or dodge, increasing your incoming damage.
- Shadow of Death - Stat increase. The ghoul effect is honestly useless to a tank, except for the fact that during the transition you hold aggro yet are immune to damage. I suppose you could Huddle as a ghoul (reduce inc damage by 50%) for a few seconds, but you'll drop fast.
- Master of Ghouls - The only benefit from this is a free Death Pact whenever you need it, however ghouls die VERY quickly in fights, and taking a point here is not that much better spent than Gargoyle or Corpse Explosion.
- Magic Suppression - If you can take it, take it. It's an expensive talent that really is only worth it for the 5% damage reduction, as AMS is powerful enough at 75%.
- Anti-Magic Zone - Situational, but it could still be useful. In my experience I use it more as an extra magic defense for myself, and not for the group. Worth mentioning it is not targeted, but rather automagically pops up in the area around you.
- Bone Shield - Arguably the best deep-tier clicker ability. Bone Shield protects against auras, dots, and bleeds without losing charges, and can be cast long before a pull so it can refresh mid-battle due to it's 5 minute duration. Check other posts for more in-depth discussion on its sexiness.
- Scourge Strike - The unholy replacement to Obliterate. Deals shadow damage, so it is increased by Ebon Plaguebringer.
- Unholy Blight - An awesome AoE ability that is a click-and-forget. Not quite as strong as Consecrate, but UB follows you around, and coupled with DnD, nothing will pull off you.
9/11/51I really REALLY like this spec. It manages to get most/all of what's important in Unholy and still pick up Lichborne. Popping Bone Shield a bit before the fight, plus Lichborne, plus IBF, means you'll be taking very little damage for the vast majority of the beginning of a fight. There are a few small tweaks that could be made, however. If you don't like Lichborne, take those 3 points from Frost (Black Ice + Lich) and finish out Impurity and Bladed Armor for moar damage. Additionally, Master of Ghouls can easily switch to Gargoyle or Corpse Explosion. Desecration is not necessary with the points in Impurity and Bladed Armor. 22/5/44This spec weighs Spell Deflection and Veteran of the Third War very heavily. You sacrifice Unholy Blight (Oh noes!) which is a major perk of Unholy tanks, but for raid tanking you wouldn't miss it too much, I don't think. You still have a reduced CD on DnD and your diseases still tick higher than average, so you can still AoE tank like a champ. You cannot fill out VotTW without losing a more important point elsewhere.
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 -- My death dps brings all the boys to the yard. Damn right, it's better than yours.
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Tiki
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 09:34:05 PM » |
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FAQQ: But Tiki, I'll have a Shadow Priest / Fury Warrior / Enh Shaman / Pet Dragon in my raids every time, so I don't need talents like Abomination's Might or Icy Talons! What do I do?A: Um, move points out of those talents. I include those talents under the assumption that if you're planning to raid tank you've already done a good chunk of research. These builds are designed to give the most Effective Health while granting utility at the same time. Q: Does the ghoul/rune weapon/gargoyle's threat go as your own?A: Sadly, no. DRW and Gargoyle serve as nothing more than extra dps, and generate their own threat. Q: If Frost Presence is the tanking presence, doesn't that mean I should go Frost?A: Definitely no. Presences are similar to warrior stances, but unlike Warriors, we don't have a talent tree that leans towards each presence. Going Frost does NOTHING to buff Frost Presence and has 0 effect at all. The Aura talents you see at the bottom of each tree are passive buffs, not tied to the Presence (i.e. Frost Aura grants 80 resistance AT ALL TIMES regardless of your presence). Q: What about Dual Wield tanking?A: Not my forte. There's plenty of debate about tanking with 2 1H weapons. Some ground rules are that your main hand should be as slow as possible, and to make sure you have plenty of Hit on your gear. I'll probably post some builds later, but I've never actually tried DW tanking. Q: Why is this FAQ so short?A: Because I'm sick of typing, and can't think of any more questions. I'll add more later. USEFUL LINKS:Tank Gear at 80 - Great list of gear you can get before and in Naxx. WoWWiki Combat Ratings - List of some common ratings and their translations into percentages. Also has links to more detailed pages about Defense, Hit, etc. Tankspot Easy Pre-Naxx Gear - Another list of gear, this time from Tankspot. This is more geared towards tanks in general, so use discretion and avoid things with Shield Block, etc etc. I'll add more here later. :O
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 -- My death dps brings all the boys to the yard. Damn right, it's better than yours.
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vampyre
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 08:56:41 AM » |
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Just wanted to note that I'm a DW tank. I just hit 80 2 days ago, so I'm still working on gear. I have 520 defense (working on enchants to max) I am using the Blacksmith swords for my weapons currently. Feel free to ask questions, i've been tanking since 74 with DW. I've ran heroic Nexus so far(twice) and that's it so far. I'll definately be stepping that up this week since im 80. You can see my talents/gear on wowarmory. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Korialstrasz&n=Darkvamp
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Emotakar
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 09:14:22 AM » |
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First i hope this site picks up, as have grown a bit weary of Elitest jerks. Theory is theory but practical application is much different. Trust me i work in politics http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055020000000000000000000000050000000000000000000000000235210330003105003150003133151&glyph=041417010405This is my current spec/runes i am big fan of it. Hey, First let me introduce myself, My name is Emotakar of Mauridn,i am raid leader/MT for a 10 man guild, we had all content cleared in the first 3 weeks of wrath. with me as MT a DK! i know crazy right. Also we run a regular 25 man pug just for fun when all our content is clear for the week. The pug has cleared all content but, Kel'thuzad (cause we ran out of time) and Malygos, and thats just cause we haven't gone there. Anywho this is the tanking spec i am currently running with. On average i run about 5k TPS with it and as you can see it has great avoidance, and reduction. Sadly i am still using SoJ from Halls of Stone as Tank weapon. for certain fights where threat isn't an issue and i have to put on FR(frost) gear. i do DW for higher def gain. Though probably not necessary. We chain pull all of Naxx and 10 man can do a full clear in about 2.5 hours if everyone is on point. Let me talk a little about the spec, instead of stroking the ole epeen. First. I am a big believer in our Dots and WP/Blight ARE AMAZING AOE holders. my standard opener for a pack is this (AOE pulling-Heroics- ANY Trash)1) D&D, start the pull and make sure they are tanked on it. (i like to auto run/Jump place it on the ground while i am jumping, and that way my character is still moving forward as it places and pulls) 2)Then IT->PS->Pestilence->Blood Tap->BB 3)Now at this point you should have enough to tap Blight, Keeping up blight is annoying as hell but its very helpful even single target. Bosses1)IT->PS->SS->BSx2-> Emp Rune weapon-> 3 spams of SS.* 2)At this point you have an option if you think your threat isn't high enough Dump your runic power into DC, if you feel comfortable pop blight first. this will be better in the long run, especially if you are running with Sanctuary. *Always que up Runic strike. This is a must. Side notes to boss rotations:-if boss positioning is a concern dont be afraid to double tap ITx2 while you are moving. you wont get that Extra SS you say but, you can if you ITx2 while moving PS-> Rune Tap -> SS Figuring out how to maximize Blood Tap is key imo to FAST tanking. This is can be made a lot easier with a simple macro. /cast Blood Tap /cast Blood Boil(check spelling on those) Linking them makes for a FAST BB and if you only press it once it will only Blood Tap. We have a lots of nonsense to keep on our bars this will help reduce that. Your friendly Emotank EmotakarP.S my Spelling is horrid, and my grammar worse sorry. please forgive me. P.S.S. sorry if repeated anything already posted. Edited : for being a moron and not knowing my own abilities names...
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« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 06:07:44 PM by Emotakar »
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Numnumnumnum
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 09:48:54 AM » |
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I use a similar build to you emotakar, I typically go 12/5/54 spec as well but I move a few points around typically. I usually don't go full desecration as I like to have Dirge since the runic power it generate equates into threat as well as giving us more runic power to generate more threat that way. I have found that's more efficient then full desecration. I also don't see the need for master of ghouls since 1 our ghoul dies easily on most fights currently in the game and 2 since its damage does not equal more threat for me so I don't find a reason to have it when im tanking. I also use that one point for dirge so i go 4/5 desecration and 2/2 dirge as opposed to the master of ghouls and 5/5 desecartion. Everything else I have is the same as yours though. Also I have found that DnD helps boost threat even on boss fight tanking and i typically generate an extra 1-1.5 TPS having DnD up as much as possible I was wondering if anyone else has found this or if everyone else just removes it from their single target tanking rotation.
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Tiki
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2008, 10:54:33 AM » |
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Yoink! It's not Rune Tap you're hitting, it's Blood Tap. Change your post, noobsauce 
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 -- My death dps brings all the boys to the yard. Damn right, it's better than yours.
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Emotakar
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2008, 06:06:01 PM » |
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Yoink! It's not Rune Tap you're hitting, it's Blood Tap. Change your post, noobsauce  WOW I FAIL UR RIGHT GG ME BUT U MEANT WHAT I HEARD!
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sixpackje
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 08:31:13 PM » |
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dont u have issues with theat sometimes ?
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wow for life
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Emotakar
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2009, 01:26:00 AM » |
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i assume you talking to me about the threat. well on extreme occasions where i wanna move faster then normal, but no not really, i can usually sustain about 4-5 tps without a problem and occasional spikes up into the 7k range. so my threat is pretty solid.
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sixpackje
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2009, 07:55:40 AM » |
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okay was wondering:) threat seems to be a issue sometimes for our dk tank, not that he loses aggro but it can be close :p
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wow for life
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sinewave
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2009, 09:59:27 AM » |
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My current AOE-centric Unholy tank build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZhxZfxhIzMzgI0ocsux:pAMmVcThere aren't a lot of passive mitigation talents to go around, and with current content, i'll probably be forced into something a little more mitigation + single target based. I am just now getting this character ready for 3.1 things though as it's an "alt". The talents and glyphs are centered around keeping some sort of AOE threat running at all times. The one annoying factor is that without the horn of winter glyph, other DKs override it and it prevents me from spamming it for the free RP as it deems a longer one as "more powerful".
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« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 10:04:01 AM by sinewave »
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Rogue for life. DK for death. S~newave
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